Recently the OBOD Facebook page posted this image:
I thought it was mildly amusing and a nice way to counter stereotypes. However, the comments section soon erupted into angry, angry Druids saying the image was sexist, exploitative, objectifying, and demeaning of women.
Now, I like to think I’m pretty right-on when it comes to feminist issues, but it seems like this is a fuss over nothing. She’s clearly a model, and someone has stuck a witty slogan underneath the image. The image itself is no more sexualised than what we see every day in TV or billboard advertising. No doubt the woman in the picture knew what she was doing posing like that, and probably got paid well to do it. So what’s the problem?
Even if it is sexualising a (conventionally) attractive woman, again I don’t see the problem here. Since when were Druids as puritanical as Christians? Sex is a part of nature and human experience. For my part as a straight man, I honestly did not think of this photo as ‘sexy’ when I saw it. I imagined a strong woman in tune with nature and the elements, or even a goddess-figure like Elen of the forests and trails.
I have no desire to offend anyone, but I also think people should lighten up about what is clearly a pretty innocuous joke. Come on, let’s not take ourselves too seriously. We’re 21st century people who call ourselves Druids, wear robes and perform pagan rituals, for gods’ sakes! If you can’t see the humour inherent in that, then there’s no hope for you.
But I would like to ask my readers: am I missing something? If this offends you, please explain why so I can understand your point of view.
Now if this was a photo of a young handsome man.. would it be considered sexist?? This is obviously a posed photo, and the eagle was probably photo-shopped in.. I think it is a brilliant photo.. a bare chested man showing a six pack would not have been considered sexist, of that I’m sure… people need to get a life…
Exactly! I think the image and the caption work well together, and it is clearly a joke!
I posted this picture a few days ago over on the ADF Facebook group. No one freaked out. Sometimes people take themselves way too seriously, which is why I’ve had a turn towards whimsy lately. People need to calm down.
Blessings,
Victoria
Agreed. When people start taking themselves too seriously, that’s when conflict begins.
“Do we have a sense of humor problem?”
I think we do. The fact that yours doesn’t match up with mine is an enormous problem. Now stop finding this asinine stuff funny and start appreciating the comedic value of Youtube Poops. Now. /sarcasm with a grain of truth
Hi there, I’ve never seen your blog before, but looking at the “feminist” tag on wordpress to find new blogs to check out as I migrate away from using Google Reader brought me to this isolated post, and I thought I’d give you my two cents since the title was indeed a question.
1. Questions like “do we have a sense of humor problem?” smack of defensiveness at the world becoming “increasingly PC” and “hostile to straight men”. It’s a dumb question, and you shouldn’t ask it. Tastes and mores change, and one single demographic’s idea of humor shouldn’t dictate everyone else’s. Much of comedy, structurally, depends on there being a subject “in” group and an object “out” group; i.e. the intended audience, and the audience that is being targeted to provide juxtaposition (you can’t have comedy without juxtaposition). Unfortunately, some of this juxtaposing relies on objectifying, villainizing, belittling, and otherwise taking away the power of the target “out” group. Once you give even the slightest cues that your object is lesser-than your subject, it becomes much easier for the subject to empathize less with the object, triggering stereotype threat (if the group is being targeted for their minority status), and a whole host of other negative psychological effects on the object group. You don’t have to believe in this, but facts are facts whether you do or not.
2. Is the image exploitative? Well, depends on the context. And the context is thus: using a model that exhibits hegemonic feminine attractiveness, and using her to contrast with “crusty” old men is an ancient, tired trope that men seem to absolutely love for some reason. It’s about as simple, childish, and ultimately unfunny as a picture of a cross-dressing man with the caption, “He’s wearing a dress! LOL!” and calling that good humor. The picture itself, I think is basically harmless (in the same way a mosquito might be), but it to think it exists independently of numerous cultural narratives about gender, paganism, sex, and the function of women’s bodies is to lay claim to a militant sort of ignorance that won’t help you, or the women around you, when something truly vile makes the rounds.
Hi, L, and thanks for dropping by! If I may respond to your points:
1. I completely understand that people have different views on what is and is not funny. I didn’t think the image was hilarious myself, but rather that it is as you say, pretty harmless. I don’t think it was a dumb question to ask, in fact I’m not sure there are any really dumb questions, just dumb answers.
I don’t know where I said or suggested anything about political correctness or hostility to straight men, that wouldn’t be my position at all. The ‘we’ in the title refers to the Druid community, which I think does have a problem of taking itself too seriously and could do with lightening up a bit.
I see no vilification or belittling ‘out-group’ in this image. Who is really the butt of the joke here? The woman in the image, or the ‘crusty old men with beards’ in the caption, or the people who view Druids as all crusty old men? What here is intended to reduce empathy?
2. I agree, it’s not exactly ground-breaking comedic genius, but what would you expect from a Facebook meme? It tries (whether it is successful or not depends on your sense of humour) to counter some stereotypes about Druids. The fact that the woman in the image is (conventionally) attractive simply hightens the contrast between the image and the caption.
I do admit ignorance about why people would find this so offensive, but I think it is quite unfair to say that I am militantly ignorant. The fact that I posted it with the message that: ‘I would like to ask my readers: am I missing something?’ shows that I am willing to hear alternative views and amend my position accordingly. This is hardly ‘militant’ (a word which is so often misused as a mere insult eg ‘militant atheist’).
I would love to hear more about the cultural narratives of gender, sex and the body in paganism, I have written a bit about the problems associated with the fertility fetish and the ‘mother goddess’ imagery. How does an image like this contribute to that narrative? I genuinely would like to hear your views on that.
May I ask that you please don’t comment on the ‘women around me’? You don’t know me or my wife/family/friends. Frankly, the women around me are all strong and independent enough to look after themselves, and cope with some pretty middle-of-the-road internet humour. If and when something vile (and there is a lot of real sexism out there online) does the rounds, it gets ignored/blocked/reported accordingly. The ‘women around me’ do not need me to help them there.
Thanks for your thoughts, though! This is exaclty the sort of discussion I was hoping for.
Well, to start off, it’s like you said: this image is harmless. However, it still depends on other sexist narratives in order to exist. To name a few tropes that I see this using:
The “legitimizing” presence of a conventionally attractive woman in a group of men; the “token female”. Think how geek culture was traditionally viewed (and how it still thinks its being viewed) by outsiders, and the similarity this bears to the stereotype that some pagan and polytheist faiths suffer from in the wider pagan communities. Women as “civilizers”, found in marriage tropes.
The stereotype of lecherous old men; that they still retain their “predatory” male sexuality, but emasculated by old age, have nothing left to lose by playing up inappropriate behavior that is deemed more excusable because of their seniority or perceived frailty. Ties into the trope of “beautiful woman with monster man”, enjoyed pretty much exclusively by men on a sexual level. Analogous to the stereotype that there are no “hot men” in straight male gaze porn because their presence is threatening.
“Naked female, clothed male” trope. (This concept, shortened to NFCM, was coined by kink communities.) The”rule” that women must be depicted wearing more revealing or more body-hugging itching than the men for any given story. The implication here, playing into the pop culture image that druids are men in full robes chanting in the forest, is that Druid men are afforded the dignity of ritual clothing, while Druid women are afforded the dignity of being closer to earth by being practically naked.
And finally, the last thing I see here is the use of the image of a sexy woman interchangeably with the word “fun”. “Crusty old men with beards” implies that the concept of druidry is boring and stuffy, and to combat this image, using a sexy woman that is, supposedly trying to take -herself- seriously in her practice (the body language in the photo sends me that subtext) is fair game to make druidry more appealing. Like an ad for a video game that uses a female mascot, she is not meant to be sympathized with, but rather used to make the game more appealing to the real target demographic. Can be linked to the phenomenon by which men will perceive a group comprising of equal numbers of men and women as being unequal and having more women.
These are things that I see and understand in a matter of seconds when I look at something, (like Mouse from that scene in The Matrix where he’s describing how he can understand the code on the monitors) so it’s rarely something I spend a while thinking about unless it really bothers me or unless I’m asked to describe my thought process.
To address a few of your points:
Re: comedy- Obviously the joke being made can be taken a few ways, but in all of the scenarios, the woman in the photo and the demographic she represents is not meant to be “in” on the joke. Both she, and the “old men” are implied to be the punch line, but I gave a hard time believing that the “old men” interpretation carries as much weight seeing as how it’s a negative stereotype and strawman that is being referenced for the purpose of tearing down.
ALL of comedy requires this basic formula, I’m sorry. Even if the “in” group is so large as to encompass everyone but the comic themselves, in the case of self-depreciating humor, or be so small as to not include anyone, in the case of, say, setting up an inanimate object in the same role. Unfortunately my theoretical and psychological understanding of comedy is only cursory, so I won’t be able to elaborate much more on the subject.
Re: “what do you expect?” I expect very little from a Facebook meme, just as I do from most other things in life, but that doesn’t except it from critique. I’m not going to with everything, but I can, and that’s the important part. Which brings me to the next point…
Re: “militant ignorance”- what I meant by this is the idea that most folks are fine critiquing stuff that bothers them, but are extremely hesitant, if not outright hostile, to the idea of applying those same rubrics to the things that they like or are not offended by. Being “militantly ignorant” about the things that one appreciates is what I meant.
Re: mother goddess – I’ve done a lot of writing on the subject if gender and sexuality in paganism (though I consider myself polytheist instead) because I’ve found myself at odds with a lot of very basic tenets in these sorts of traditions by virtue of being not just asexual, but trans* and agendered. You can read a few of my more complete pieces on my blog: ixkul.wordpress.com
Re: “women in your life” – Perhaps you misunderstood me here, but I didn’t mean that you should start white knighting, but rather you should be able to speak up alongside them and be able to look at the media you consume with a critical eye. That’s it.
Thanks, L, for clarifying your original comment and showing your thought processes. That all actually makes sense now you explain it. Some of us don’t have your Matrix-superpowers!
I’ll be sure to check out your blog, it sounds very interesting.